WHO RUNS THE RAIL NETWORK??

I ask this question for i am fed up with hearing about the latest round of pay talks not taking place or breaking down ,then a GOV Minister goes on tv and says it's up to the rail bosses.
OK then well can someone explain to me after listening to classic fm's radio news today were a bullitin stated that the GOVERMENT were looking into increasing RAIL FARES FOR 2024 BY SOME 8% , Now hang on aminute one they say wages negotiations is nowt to do with UM ,, but when price increase's for travel come up it's this rotten tory yobs who are suggesting the rise of fares????? I AM AT A LOSS,please anyone shed some light on this . G.B.

Gordon Banks, read this!

One of Lord Ashcroft's polls appeared last week (whilst WW was down) It said that now, even the majority of Tory voters think that gas, electric , water and rail should be state run.

HERE ! HERE! HERE ! THAT WILL GET MY CROSS.
G..B.

The story - railways are run by Train (and freight) operating Companies (TOC / FOC) that are private Companies.

The reality - TOCs cannot make any decisions that are not sanctioned by the DfT, who in turn can only sanction as far as they are permitted by HM Treasury.

Ministers point the finger at TOCs whilst keeping their hands firmly tied behind their backs!!!

Incidentally, we all know who the First Lord of the Treasury is, don't we?

Is it me you're looking for?

tonker

You missed out the majority of the rail freight operation!

And if the railways were to be taken back into state control, it would cost our country millions in compensation to the foreign owned private companies and the state run railways of France and Germany which are run as commercial companies by their governments.

shud,nt have been sold off in the 1st place .

So you bring it back under state control. Obviously you then need experienced people to run it. The market isn’t exactly full of people with that background. But luckily there is a sudden influx of people available with CV’s that are available. Yes, you twigged it, it is those just made redundant. So they run the new set up.

If people want the bad old days of nationlisation, they can always visit one of the many preserved railways scattered around the country.

They are now even getting the redundant 40 year old "buses on tracks" Pacers for you to keep enjoying the nostellgia of the past!

The bad old days of nationlisation was caused by the railways being run to break point during the war then lack of investment after it if they'd received, taking inflation into account, anything like the amount of money the privatised companies receive we would have a far better service, privatisation as been a disaster for this country ,another big well done to the Tories

Handsomeminer

That is right about the railways being hammered during the war, they were used to transport men and munitions around the country, because in those days the road network was not that good, and the infrastructure as in the tracks, steam locos and rolling stock did the job, they had been built properly, but after the war and nationalisation, the railways were just left to rot, I know the country did not have much money to spend on anything after the war, and when it came to Beeching, a lot of rural lines needed to be closed, because folk were using cars and buses, and bus design had evolved, with buses like the London Routemaster and here in Wigan, Northern Counties were building modern buses, and was there also another bus manufacturer in Wigan ?

BUT

Beeching went far to far, he was a pillock, closing lines like the Borders Railway and the East West route, the Varsity line between Oxford and Cambridge, which they are reopening, at present the entire route is being rebuilt LINK and LINK

But on about the war days, a signalman on the Whelley Loop line told me that there was a train along there every five minutes during the night, when the cover of darkness was used to transport war materials, because during the day the trains would have been vulnerable to attacks from the Luftwaffe.

GB

An agreement on pay was done and dusted some time ago. The sticking point is terms and conditions. Although the railways are a seven day service Sunday is not classed as a working day for drivers. This is the main sticking point. The overtime premium for Sunday working is considered by the management to be excessive and they want to reduce it.
The railways are not privatised they are fixed term franchises. It wouldn’t cost the government to take back full control at the end of each franchise agreement.

at least they turn up wideboy . how are the arabs comming on with your prediction .

No matter who runs it, you'll always have to wait for a train!

Handsomminer

The lack of investment on our railways occured under both Tory and Labour Governments with both parties still producing steam locomotives which only ran for a decade or so until 1968 while other war torn countries in Europe whose railways were also run down as bad as ours, if not worse, got on with the job of modernising their railways straight away after the war by replacing their steam with more modern diesel/electric locomotives and units. It is only since the end of the loss making public ownersip of the railways that we started the belated progrmme of modernising our railways with the help of foreign investment from countries within the EU which pro Europeans like yourself must surely welcome?

Like I said, if you still like to travel around in our country by rail like it was in the past, then visit the Preserved Railways as that is what they are about, reminding people of the days of rail travel in our country duing the days of pre war GWR, LMS, LNER, SOUTHERN and post war loss making nationalise BRITISH RAILWAYS.

More waffle O C the railways are currently the worst they've been in my lifetime,so much for the belated programme of modernisation

The only comment i would make to yours O/C IS where you state that after the war we were slow to take up the challenge like the other countries ,all i ask is please do not forget that after ww2 as well you know this country of our's was on it's knees the British people had to hardships for many a long year's after also don't forget we did not as much repatriation out of the war as for eg USA etc and we were still paying them back well into the late 1990s before our debts were OFF!!!thus that was a contributary factor to our lack of investment . ,which should never be overlooked . What I will agree with you is from around the 70s/80s there was an unwillingness to pump more into the economy mainly i feel because of our archaic system and way of doing things , and alas i believe it's still going on today . IF WE just think about it for one moment £7 MILLION PER DAY housing illegals?? again imagine just where that sort of cash could be invested ????? SO have a nice day O/C/
G.B.

no investment & bled them dry . just like all the others that has been sold off .a bigger bunch of criminals iv,e never seen these torys .

Hello Whups keeping well G.B.

yes as you can see alan.

GB, it was the year 2006 when UK made final payment to USA of its mortgage for WW2 debt. (It did take a payment holiday, which extended the term by two years)

Thank ENA
I had an idea i was by a few years ,but it still proved mypoint i hope anyway .
GB

Aye, sadly we only had two years between ending those payments, and taking on the new debt that Rishi and his ilk saddled us with.

Handsomeminer

Not waffle, just fact!

How on earth you can say the that the railways now are the worse you have seen in your lifetime when the railways during nationalisation were not only light years behind other countries and had out of date rolling stock like inefficent locomotives, first generation diesel and electrical units, old coaches, wagons is unbelievable.

Evidently, you never travelled on the the railways of other countries during the dark days of the nationalised railways of our country.

I did and it was a eye opener to see how more advanced they were in rail travel, especially in the countries badly affected by the second world war!

As for investment, what has Labour ever done to improve the railways when in power?

You can have all the modern rolling stock you like if their not running the ain't worth a carrot a d when they are running they are extremely expensive and over crowded you stick to waffling on in your own little world

Owd Codger

What about the scandalous price of rail fares, and the 'surge' pricing system, a while back I was watching a documentary about Paddington Station, and on a busy Friday afternoon, when the demand for rail travel is at it's highest, folk were being asked for £360 for a single fare, for a journey distance of about 20 miles

The reason they can get away with that, is because some folk will pay it.

And you may well find yourself standing for the whole journey.

and the rolling stock is 2nd hand me downs from london . he doesnt know wot he,s talking about .

This morning I booked a train ticket for my sister. Bryn to Liverpool Lime Street return tomorrow £5.60.

Meanwhile on German railways. A piece from yesterday's Times. The first few paragraphs are about problems at the German state railway company Deutsche Bahn.

Germany

ENA ?
Why can't these folk on here realise what we have just been commenting onwith regards to the nation's national debt after world war 2 ,which obviously a great bearing on us to compete ,or do they think money comes from trees?????
G.B.

alan did the torys look in trees when they gave baroness mony £200mill of our money ? .

Personally, I think that today, UK trains are decades behind continental standards.

But, then again :-

I like travelling on a fast train.

I like eating in the dining car: proper meal not junk food from a trolley.

I like the 'hotel on wheels' concept of the ICE trains.

I like fares that incentivise me to take the train rather than fly.

etc etc....

Just stumbled across this

On about German railways and Gaffers article, wasn't the German economic problems of the 1990s, due to the German 'reunification' of the early 1990s, and the massive cost to what would have been the old West Germany, in paying for the modernisation of what was East Germany ?

Reading that article though, and it listing the 'mistakes' Germany has made in abandoning nuclear power and relying on Russian gas for energy, which they were warned against doing so by America, can the Germans turn it around though, they are a quite an industrious nation, but if they are in the long term 'screwed' though, then surely us being out of the EU is a good thing, because Germany is the lynch pin of the EU, if Germany goes down the pan, does it take the EU down the pan too ?

Since Germany is being mentioned -

Anyone able to recommend places to stay in Hamburg?

If you want a spot of fun visit the Reeperbahn. It’s a while since I was last there but it was an eye opener.

Yes, I have been in the past. However I had relatives with whom I stayed. Sadly, all passed away now, so will have to stay in hotel or similar.

Handsomeminer

Is that the best you can could out with?

Yes, we all agreed on the fares, but apart from them, it now more pleasure travelling on clean modern rolling stock than in your past world of out of date locomotives, units, Mk 4 coaches and the dreaded Pacers created under nationlisation.

And there has always been overcrowding on trains, especially at peak times!

Perhaps it is yourself who is living in a world of waffle and living in a narrow minded little world.

Whups,

I would hardy call the Class 220 Voyagers, Class 221 Super Voyager, Class 180 Adelante, Class 390 Pendolino, Class 800 Azura Uniits which are used for inter city travel from the North of England to London, hand me downs.

Stick to what you know best, moaning about the Tories, their Goverment and having silly running battles with Eggbeater.

In the meantime we non ex. moles will get on with enjoying life even if with the ripping off!

As stated before all these new trains sent worth a carrot when their not running the fact is their have been more services cancelled over the last 12 months than their s ever been and you accept overcrowding because it suits your flawed argument,get that test took

you stick with wot you know best NOTHIN . it was reported on north west tonite about used carridges from london underground being refurbished for use on our lines . you shud get your facts right just like eggbeater who puts on fake news , just like you .

Whups

The last of the 102 old London pacer trains operated by Northern rail was removed from service over 2 years ago. They have been replaced with 100 CAV Civity battery electric trains. Having ridden in the cab from Manchester to Leeds in one I can assure you they are very comfortable.
The pacer trains were a poor model when they were brand new. Built from a Leyland bus body fitted onto a simple train frame with fewer wheels than what was normal practice. A formula that created the uncomfortable passenger experience.

So, how do we compare?

Gaffer

Correct, but you wll never convince those who are still living in the public ownership days of out of date rolling stock and dirty stations.

Bet they still prefer to travel on the old turbo prop planes when they go abroad on holiday!

so your saying it,s better under the private sector . well i,m very sure that you,ll get a disagreement from those who actually use those trains & at least the old system turned up .

(Comment removed because it broke the rules)

And what have you done in the last twenty years Paddy? Certainly not worked ( ha,ha) on your spelling or your manners. I am sure Gaffer has done and seen more than your ignorant self.

Whups

What I am saying is that the last thing this country needs is the loss making out of date railway system of a few years ago under public ownership.

The comments you have made at the usual around midnight time just about sums up the level of your logical thinking, especially around that time.

As for the idiot todger remark, you need to look in mirror before calling others!

Whups

I was brought up to be good mannered and educated to be able to express myself in word and speech without having to resort to swearing or coarseness.
It would appear that you’re a complete opposite.
It’s a pity you don’t read what you see, you read what you think you see. I have never shown a preference for privatisation or franchising of the railways,in fact quite the opposite.
As for Concorde yes I have flown on it. From New York to Paris in October 1987. It was a surprise anniversary present for my late wife. I still have the dinner menu and the small silver bowls we were given when boarding.

How come you are doing so much riding in train cabs, gaffer?

Ena

My youngest son was driving. We were accompanied by his manager. A very good guy and manager ex British Rail straight from school. It was just the one trip. My sons now driving on the west coast mainline.

yes i thought so gaffer wot about the space shuttle been on that have we .why would they let a loser like you into a cab of a train .wot a load of cobblers are you a "walter mitty" kind of man as thats wot you come across as . give us a break & iv,e caught you out before with your false info . as for manners so was i & not took in by your rubbish unlike others on here who seem to bend with your every breath .

maybe iv,e better things to do in the day unlike you todger who has nothing better to do in your mundane life .

neither have you(worked) wideboy & i,m sure my travels are far more entertaining than walter mitty . you shud stick to your side of the pond , isnt that wot you told peter israel to do ? . try & practise wot you preach wideboy .

Whupsy

Are yoo in a bad mood or sumat similar, because you are being more rude to folk than you usually are

And Whupsy I have been giving online grocery shopping a good look, and Iceland is between 20% and 30% more expensive than the likes of Asda, so it is no wonder they offer free delivery, Asda seems to be the best option

Whups

Judging by by your many utterings at various times of the day and especially around the twilight hour, it is yourself who have the mundane life.

You need to get out more, even if only to have a ride on the modern trains and trams around the area!

i think not & you will never come up to my way of life . when was the last time you rode on a train or tram . and judging by your utterings it seems you know about nothing .

Whups before you go for a ride on them fantastic modern trains running around the area check their running and don't go between about 7am to 9am or 4pm to 6pm if you want a seat and I wouldn't risk the last service at night because a large proportion of these get cancelled and make sure you take plenty of money because some of the fairs are eye watering

the price of privitisation colin .

Correct Brian it's all coming home to roost still a good few Tory spiv s have made a Bob or two

Oh dear, looks like there is a bit of frustration on the part of the two ex. moles called Colin and Paddy.

looks like we hit a raw nerve colin he,s reverting to name calling now .

We shouldn't laugh Brian he,s not well

Yoo two are a couple of bullies

and your not , your having a laugh . who is it that always brings up the miners strike ? . who was it that put a pic of thatcher on the miners blog ? . get real 1stroke .

Ooooooh

you might well say that . shit stiring again .

Whups

Do you ever sleep?

yes but i,m not permenantly asleep unlike you .

It's a shame ,you'd think his family would say something

Having been away a long time I wonder how many on here actually use the railways. At a guess I would say that apart from travelling to Wembley in the early 80’s I never travelled on a train. I worked all over the UK and it was never a convenient way to travel.

broady

I do, by going on regular trips to Carlisle, Crewe, Derby, Doncaster, Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, York etc in the course of having a hobby and what a pleasure it is to ride on the new diesel and electric units.

Unlike you know who, no spending my time in local pubs to keep them going or late evening drinking for me!

Owd Codger

I intend to travel more on trains in the future, but on about modern trains, a while back I took a train from Wigan via Warrington Bank Quay and Chester to Holyhead, the trains from Warrington and Chester both being those Voyager trains and it was an absolute pleasure

I used to use them regularly being a free pass /quarter fair person but only do it as a last resort now because of lack of reliability and over crowding

There has always been overcrowding on trains, especially at rush hour times, even during the time of public ownership and Labour Governments.

Even seen it on my travels in EU countries including the state owned railways of France and Germany!

Its not unique to the UKI!

Whups and Handsomeminer could have a free bus-pass as soon as they reached 60, what, with them being St.Heleners / Merseysiders and that !

In fact, I could have one myself, if I wanted, with me being a St.Helens council-tax payer!

iv,e been to both france & germany & was quite comfortable on both .

who says we hav,nt got one tonker .

Can you go to Liverpool on the train from Garswood station?

O C it's not just rush hour now cancellations have a massive impact on over crowding and tinker please don't insult me saying I am a st Helens that's a terrible thing to say

Handsomeminer

I agree, it is a terrible thing to call someone a St Helenser , even though in times of maximum provocation, not demarcation, or free collective bargaining, or even referring the dispute to ACAS, but I have called Whupsy a scouser

yes i can .

And here's me, having to pay £5.40 return! It's not reet!!

HM, I was under the impression that you were a Downall Greener!

why is it "not reet" . i,m several years older than you tonker .

"th'owd 'un"!

Whupsy

Yoo have worked all your life, fought in the Falklands War, ran a soup kitchen, swam the channel HAS well as becoming a Champion Darts Player, so it is only reet that in your retirement yoo can take a trip to Liverpool, and my favourite place in Liverpool is the Merseyside Maritime Museum LINK and you can combine that with a visit to the Cruise Liner Terminal, where some interesting ships dock LINK

No tonker lower incer now living in wigan

Lower Incer, living in Ince, or an 'ethnic' Incer, living in Wigan?

Suppose I am one of them immigrants nobody wants

You might end up in Kilhey Court, if you play your cards right!

your favorite place 1stroke is the national front office .